So, follow me on this one: If Heaven exists then our existence is completely useless.
Here is my argument:
Assume that Heaven exists and that Christian believers are admitted.
Next assume that you are cognizant of yourself and others, and you still have your memories.
Lastly, assume that your personality remains intact, and that Heaven is "perfect".
Now, moving forward with these assumptions, being in Heaven implies a perfect happiness. But if you are still you, and others are still themselves, then conflict will still arise. Maybe you remember the robber that killed your spouse and then got "saved" and was admitted into Heaven, etc.
The only way to prevent this conflict is for God to "change" you upon admittance. So if a change would have to be made such that you don't feel sadness, anguish over a loved one not being in heaven, etc., then what was the point of your initial earth bound existence? Because if it's not really "you" in Heaven, then the whole prior life on earth was in fact pointless, God could have just made the heavenly automatons he wanted to begin with.
Because, here is a neat thought: The supposedly first two people on the planet had free will, and they fucked it up the rest of us. So to prevent that from logically happening again, your free will must be removed upon your heavenly admittance. So something somewhere has to give...
Chew on that one for a while.
Lastly, what happens to infants, children, or extremely old people? If you have the misfortune to die as a baby (but you have been baptised) then are you just this drooling, toothless lump for all eternity? Or if you elderly, are you then former decrepit shell of your former self for ever? These "little" details seem to have been conveniently neglected by the authors of this fantasy land.
-Cludge
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Ok so this is Carnie's response - Stop laughing at his name..
The Psychology of Heaven
About the Resurrection - Marriage
The Bible tells us, “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven” (Matthew 22:30). This was Jesus’ answer in response to a question concerning a woman who had been married multiple times in her life —who would she be married to in heaven (Matthew 22:23-28)? Evidently, there will be no such thing as marriage in heaven. This does not mean that a husband and wife will no longer know each other in heaven. This also does not mean that a husband and wife could not still have a close relationship in heaven. What it does seem to indicate, though, is that a husband and wife will no longer be married in heaven.
Most likely, there will be no marriage in heaven simply because there will be no need for it. When God established marriage, He did so to fill certain needs. First, He saw that Adam was in need of a companion. “The LORD God said, ‘It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him’” (Genesis 2:18). Eve was the solution to the problem of Adam’s loneliness, as well as his need for a “helper,” someone to come alongside him as his companion and go through life by his side. In heaven, however, there will be no loneliness, nor will there be any need for helpers. We will be surrounded by multitudes of believers and angels (Revelation 7:9), and all our needs will be met, including the need for companionship.
Earthly Memories
Isaiah 65:17 tells us, “For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.” Some interpret Isaiah 65:17 as saying that we will have no memory of our earthly lives in Heaven. However, one verse earlier, in Isaiah 65:16 the Bible says, “…For the past troubles will be forgotten and hidden from my eyes.” It is likely only our “past troubles” that will be forgotten – not all of our memories. Our memories will be cleansed, redeemed, healed, and restored – not erased. There is no reason why we could not possess many memories from our earthly lives. The memories that will be cleansed are the ones that involve sin, pain, and sadness. Revelation 21:4 declares, “He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Some point to the story of Lazarus and the rich man (Luke 16:19-31) as proof that the dead remember our earthly lives. The rich man asked Abraham to send Lazarus back to earth to warn the rich man’s brothers not to come to hell. So he remembered his relatives. He must have also remembered his own life of sin because he never asked to be released from hell, nor did he ask why he was there or claim there had been some kind of mistake. He remembered enough about his earthly life to know that he deserved hell. But this is no proof that those in heaven remember their earthly lives. The rich man’s remembrance was part of his misery.
Babies when they die.
The Bible tells us that even if an infant or child has not committed personal sin, all people, including infants and children, are guilty before God because of inherited and imputed sin. Inherited sin is that which is passed on from our parents. In Psalm 51:5, David wrote, "I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me." David recognized that even at conception, he was a sinner. The very sad fact that infants sometimes die demonstrates that even infants are impacted by Adam’s sin, since physical and spiritual death were the results of Adam's original sin.
Each person, infant or adult, stands guilty before God; each person has offended the holiness of God. The only way that God can be just and at the same time declare a person righteous is for that person to have received forgiveness by faith in Christ. Christ is the only way. John 14:6 records what Jesus said, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me." Also, Peter stated in Acts 4:12, "there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved." Salvation is an individual choice.
What about babies and young children who never reach the ability to make this individual choice? The “age of accountability” is a concept that teaches those who die before reaching the “age of accountability” are automatically saved, by God’s grace and mercy. The “age of accountability” is a belief that God saves all those who die before reaching the ability to make a decision for or against Christ. Thirteen is the most common number given for the age of accountability based on the Jewish custom that a child becomes an adult at the age of 13. However, the Bible gives no direct support to the age of 13 always being the age of accountability. It likely varies from child to child. A child has passed the age of accountability once he or she is capable of making a faith decision for or against Christ.
With the above in mind, also consider the following: Christ's death is presented as sufficient for all of mankind. 1 John 2:2 says Jesus "is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world." This verse is clear that Jesus' death was sufficient for all sins, not just the sins of those who specifically have come to Him in faith. The fact that Christ's death was sufficient for all sin would allow the possibility of God applying that payment to those who were never capable of believing.
The one passage that seems to identify with this topic more than any other is 2 Samuel 12:21-23. The context of these verses is that King David committed adultery with Bathsheba, with a resulting pregnancy. The prophet Nathan was sent by the Lord to inform David that because of his sin, the Lord would take the child in death. David responded to this by grieving, mourning, and praying for the child. But, once the child was taken, David's mourning ended. David's servants were surprised to hear this. They said to King David, "What is this thing that you have done? While the child was alive, you fasted and wept; but when the child died, you arose and ate food." David's response was, "While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, ‘Who knows, the LORD may be gracious to me, that the child may live.’ But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me." David's response can be seen as an argument that those who cannot believe are safe in the Lord. David said that he could go to the child, but that he could not bring the child back to him. Also, and just as important, David seemed to be comforted over this. In other words, David seemed to be saying that he would once again see the child (in heaven), though he could not bring him back.
Though the Bible leaves open the possibility, the one problem with saying that God applies Christ's payment for sin to those who can't believe is that the Bible does not specifically say that He does this. Therefore, this is a subject for which we should not be adamant or dogmatic. We can, however, be dogmatic about the fact that God ALWAYS does what is right.
Knowing the love and grace of God, God applying Christ’s death to those who cannot believe would seem consistent with His character. It is our position that God applies Christ's payment for sin to young children and those who are mentally handicapped, since they were not mentally capable of understanding their sinful state and their need for the Savior. Of this we are certain, that God is loving, holy, merciful, just, and gracious. Whatever He does, it is ALWAYS right and good.
Our Bodies in Heaven
In the book of 1 Corinthians, chapter 15, Paul talks about the resurrection and the resurrected body. In verses 35 and following, he states that our heavenly bodies will be different from our natural bodies, with some stark contrasts. Whereas our earthly bodies are characterized by mortality (being susceptible to death), our resurrected bodies will be characterized by immortality (not susceptible to death). Likewise while our earthly bodies are susceptible to decay (corruption), they will become incorruptible (1 Corinthians 15:53). Also, where our natural bodies are prone to weakness (ask anyone who has reached 40 years of age or older), our resurrected bodies will be characterized by strength (verse 43).
Another comparison that is made is that now we have a natural body, but then we will have a spiritual body. This probably doesn’t mean that we will be like ghosts possessing no body at all and floating around unable to interact with things around us. After all, verse 49 states that we will have a body like Jesus’ resurrected body (see also 1 John 3:2). And Jesus, after His resurrection, told them to touch Him and to watch Him eat, demonstrating that He was not merely a spirit (Luke 24:37-43). Rather, it’s more likely that just as a natural body is fitted for this present life in our physical universe, the spiritual body will be that which will best suits us for the eternal existence we are destined for in our eternal abode. Jesus’ resurrected body was capable of entering locked rooms at will (John 20:19). Our earthly body limits us in ways (and/or dimensions) that our spiritual body will not.
First Corinthians 15:43 also describes the transformation from “sown in dishonor” to “raised in glory.” Philippians 3:21 says that Jesus “...will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body...” Our decaying bodies are described with the word “dishonor” because they bear the mark of the results of sin. We can all picture the lungs of one who has ruined his health through smoking, or a brain that is no longer able to form complete thoughts because of drug abuse. In the same way, the decaying physical body is the direct result of man’s sinfulness. Had there been no sin, there would be no decay and death (1 Corinthians 15:56). But God, through Christ’s transforming power, is able to raise up His children in Christ with new glorious bodies, being completely free from the ravages of sin and possessing the glory of Christ instead.
To summarize, we are not told exactly what we will look like in the next life, what age we will appear to be, or if we will look thin or fat. But while many believe we will bear some resemblance to what we look like now, we do know that in whatever ways our appearance or health has been altered as a result of sin (whether because of overeating or not eating right, hereditary malformations, injuries, aging, etc.), these traits will not be carried over into our appearance in the next life. More importantly, the sin nature, inherited from Adam (Romans 5:12) will no longer be with us, for we will be made after the holiness of Christ (1 John 3:2).
Summary
Our short life on earth is simply for us to prepare for heaven. Out of love, God gives us free will meaning the right to choose what we say and do. Our life however comes to one big choice, do we believe in God and Jesus, or do we not. True belief is all that is required to gain admission to heaven; however I do believe we are rewarded at different levels in heaven for our works. Some will say that they believe, however they do not live a life that reflects what they say. My question is, do they really believe, because with true belief there will be actions that reflect your belief. This does not imply that Christians will not sin, however their life should reflect obedience to God. Christians are not perfect, we are forgiven.
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